Wednesday, May 07, 2008

Win some, lose some

As you probably know, Obama won big in North Carolina (which surprised me) and Clinton pulled out a victory in Indiana. Of course, there are now rumors buzzing about that Clinton will be dropping out after the West Virginia primary -- to end things on a high note.

I don't know what will happen; this theory sounds plausible. I only know that an "Obama-Clinton" ticket would be stronger than an "Obama-anyone else" ticket.

I've watched the MSM's eager dick-licking of McGeezer this year, and I fear that many people will vote for him just to NOT vote for Obama, despite the fact that they'd be voting for a continuation of the ruinous policies of the Bush-Cheney era. Just this morning, I heard yet another pundit calling McCain a "maverick" and "an independent thinker," both of which are complete falsehoods. McCain is GWB with a war record, plain and simple. He's a traditional repug, supporter of American Empire, believer in war war war as the solution to all problems.

And where does that leave us? On the brink of ruin, with a bankrupt economy, no real manufacturing, dependence on foreign oil and goods, and a rotten broken system that's so corrupt as to inspire nothing but disgust from the rest of the world.

I think there are many Americans who still believe in the Politics of Old White Guys--that rich old white guys actually give a shit about regular people like you and me. They deny the evidence all around us that those old rich white guys in government really don't give a flying fuck about us, about our kids, or our schools, or our futures, or our jobs, or anything else. They only care about living here:
and really couldn't give two shits if you're this guy:

What do you think of an Obama/Clinton ticket? Do you want that? Do you think they'd win?


Life As I Know It Now said...

Right on. They don't give two shits for us. I think Obama would be an IDIOT to not unite the democratic party behind him by asking Clinton to be vp. He'd win then and he'd win big. Can he win without HRC? I don't know for sure but I think not. I'd like him to win should HRC not get the nomination but I'm not real hopeful.

Anonymous said...

Nice article. I agree with your premise that the people in the upper echelon of government don't care much put about the little guy.

However, I don't think that Obama will or should take Hillary as a VP. Obama is running on the ticket of change; not being apart of the establishment. In order to keep his message going and be true to his message.

Just my opinion.


Dr. Monkey Von Monkerstein said...

I think Obama/Clinton would win. I also think Obama/Richardson would do well as would Obama/the governor of Kansas Kathleen whatshername.

dguzman said...

Liberality--I don't know that Obama will see it that way. As Matt says below, he may decide he can win with someone else and just cut Clinton out completely, which would go along with this whole "change" thing he's running on. My concern is

dguzman said...

OOPS--I hit enter too soon!

My concern is that if he picks someone who's less "exciting" or well-known (i.e. Monkey's suggestions of the Kansas gov or even Richardson, who inspired VERY FEW people in his run), the sheeple will just go with the idiot they know--McGeezer.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Welcome, Matt! And I appreciate your opinions! You make a good point as I said above. But I'm thinking in terms of uniting the party and the dem vote, though I suppose I might as well add "at all costs"--including the cost of Obama abandoning his message somewhat. It's a tough question.

Monkey--I'd worry if Obama picked a relatively obscure person like the Kansas gov or even Richardson. I mean, Richardson's campaign was a non-starter; the guy went nowhere. I just want to be sure we beat McCain into the effing ground.

Claire said...

I agree 100% about the Republicans. I'd love to see an Obama/Clinton ticket; I'm not sure it will happen, but I do think that Obama is going to have to make the gesture; Hillary has far too many supporters and he needs to appeal to them. That said, I think that any supporter of Clinton or Obama who says they'll refuse to vote for the other in November is crazy and wrong. I've supported Hillary from the beginning, but I will HAPPILY vote for Obama in November, and I hope all Democrats will do the same. The alternative is just too grim to contemplate.

Claire said...

BTW, I would also LOVE to see Kathleen Sebelius on the ticket. I think Obama will ask Clinton first, and that she'll decline,and then he should pursue Sebelius.

Anonymous said...

I agree with CDP about the polls that show people who vote for Clinton wouldn't vote for Obama. This is just sour grapes. They can't possibly believe that Obama would be worse then Clinton.

I may be overly optomistic but I see McCain having a hard time winning in Nov. I think right now being a Republican is like having the plague. The DNC is going to beat the country over the head with the whole "4 more years of Bush" once they have a candidate.

I just don't think he can even offer the VP to Hillary. What has gotten him this far is his condemnation of the establishment and like it or not the Clintons are part of that. I think Richardson will be his first pick.


dguzman said...

CDP--I agree that Obama needs to appeal to the Clinton contingent; not that I need convincing to vote for him if he gets the nomination, but some people will appreciate the gesture. And you're right--any dems who say they won't vote for the other dem candidate are MORONS and are not thinking this through at all. Perhaps you're right--a woman like Sebelius would be an exciting addition to the ticket and would be in keeping with Obama's rejection of the establishment.

Matt--thanks for coming back and for your url; can't wait to check it out! I HOPE the dems hammer on the "4 more years" message (as well as "100 years in Iraq"); they'd be idiots not to, because the media will be calling McGeeze a "maverick" forever, no matter the truth. I would be disappointed if Obama picked Richardson, but I admit he'd be the "safe" choice (because he's a male). Misogyny is a strong force in this country/world, and any woman would draw that MSM/men's hatred.

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vikkitikkitavi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
vikkitikkitavi said...

Obama/Clinton won't happen unless the Clintons find some way to force it against the will of the party, which is possible but improbably, in my opinion.

The reason why you never see tickets anymore that feature the second place guy in the veep spot is that there is too much on-the-record criticism between them from the primary campaign, and the press becomes obsessed with it, and it takes over the campaign narrative.

My guess is Richardson in the #2. He's a governor, he's Latino, he's a respected member of the Clinton administration, he's got foreign policy cred, he's really perfect.

Anonymous said...

It does not matter who runs with Sen. Obama (with the acception of Clinton) he will loose to McBush. This is unfortunate but, I believe inevidible. I am sure glad I renounced by affiliation with the DNC, it is an embarassment.

Anonymous said...

dguzman, I agree that there are more dynamic picks for VP then Richardson but I think Obama will have to take a safe pick. For the reasons that vikki listed and because I think you can only push the antiestablishment so far.

He will need to pick someone that the independents can fall back on to justify voting for the democrat.

Rick, the recent polls show both Democrats over McCain in the general election. I think you underestimate the contempt that the American people have for the current president. I believe that more people then you think will vote Democrat just because they are fed up with the Republican party.


dguzman said...

Vik--you make good points as always. Richardson is the safe guy. I always forget he's latino!

Rick--I'm praying you're wrong; however, if you watch the MSM, you'd think McBush had already won the general election, for all the slobbering they do over him. That's depressing, but then I remember back to the beginning of this process and how much they parroted that whole "inevitability" script for Clinton; we see how that turned out in hindsight, but back then, she was all they talked about.

I have to agree the DNC has shown some abysmal judgment, but that's nothing new. I sure do wish we could find someone like an Obama to lead it--someone with vision and guts. Hell, Bill Clinton would be an improvement even with all his baggage.

Fran said...

I say no more gloom and doom if we can help it - ie, the whole thing about Obama not being able to beat McAncient.

We have to not get stuck there, seriously.

As for Clinton as VP, I can't imagine that she would ever say yes. Obama is not stupid, he will broker something with her, he has to.

Secy of State?

Kathleen Sibelius - oh yes indeed, yes indeed.

Anonymous said...

They were speculating on NBC today that Obama might be willing to pay off some of her debt to make her go away. I think this would be a travesty to the millions of people that have donated to Obama's campaign, not Hillary's.

Also, it would appear that at this point the Clintons are only trying to recoup all the money that have loaned themselves to this point. If they stop campagning the donations will dry up and they will eat the 11 million.


Mary Ellen said...

I can't imagine why Hillary would even consider being on an Obama ticket. Let's see,he accused her and Bill of being racists, he continually lied about her healthcare plans and on numerous occasions made sexist remarks about her...let's not forget his little juvenile act of giving her the finger. Hillary would be better off in the Senate where she can do some good instead of fetching coffee for Obama. You know that is the only thing he would let her do.

If Obama wins the nomination, I won't vote for him in the GE and I don't think I'm the only one that will hold firm to that decision. I've read many Hillary supporters who said that they wouldn't even vote for Obama even if Hillary was on the ticket and even if she graciously asked us to support him.

If Obama thinks he can win FL and MI when he did everything he could to keep them from having a re-vote, he and Howard Dean are out of their minds. But hey...they'll get all the black votes! That's something, eh? Oh yeah...Democrats usually do get the black votes. My bad.

Oh, and the MSM who has been pumping for Obama all these months...they're going to rip him to shreds in the GE while they back McCain with glowing reports of his heroism while he was a prisoner of war in Viet Nam.

Anonymous said...

Mary Ellen, you are right that many Clinton supportes have said that they wouldn't vote for Obama in the GE. My question is why?

I understand your support of Clinton but I don't understand not supporting the democratic nominee, whoever that might be.

If Obama does win the nomination do you believe that McCain would make a better president? It would seem to me that any democrat would be better then McCain.

I'm just trying to understand why Clinton supporters wouldn't vote for Obama.

Please let me know.


Distributorcap said...

not a chance on Obama/Clinton

dguzman said...

Fran--I agree; I'm so sick of the negative and the infighting. I just want it to be over. It does make sense for him to "give" her something like Sec of State. Hell, if Condi can do it, anyone can.

Matt--are you serious? I can see the DNC giving Hillary money, but Obama? That would be insane. I hope that doesn't happen; can you imagine the "backdoor bailout" kind of bullshit the MSM will sling? Ugh.

ME--I realize you're not only FOR Hillary but really AGAINST Obama, and I know you're not voting for McAncient--will you vote for Nader? I just worry about a split-vote situation again, like in 2000; is there no chance you'll vote for Obama? I will, but only because I want to help defeat McCain in any way I can. I think this campaign has brought out the worst in both Hillary and Obama, so I'm willing to forgive him his idiot moments. Anything to beat McCain.

DCap--I don't know whether that whole "repugs are galvanized by Hillary" line of reasoning is really as valid as the MSM portrays it to be. I don't trust the MSM any farther than I can throw them. I do hope that Alternet writer is right about McCain's support among repugs being really low. I want him to lose, and lose BAD. Like Mondale's-loss-to-Reagan bad, you know?

Mauigirl said...

I know that many Republicans detest Hillary and one concern I always had with her candidacy was that it would mobilize their "base" (and base is an appropriate word). Also, I know some Republicans who would vote for Obama but never for Hillary. So I'm not sure that she'd be a complete asset to the ticket; among the Democrats, it might bring some of her supporters on board, but not all. And to Matt's point, if Obama is running on "change" she is the epitome of "not change." I think Richardson would probably be a better choice. But Hillary should definitely have an important role - I'm thinking a major cabinet post for her.